According to the Bible’s definition of “great tribulation,”
a post-tribulation harpazo occurs anytime after the beast’s persecution
stops. This time of the antichrist’s reign starts at the
abomination of desolation and continues for 3 ½ years. Daniel 7:25 |
Revelation 13:5 It ends when Christ throws the beast and false prophet
into the lake of fire after He returns in glory with His bride. Revelation
19:20 There are many misconceptions about what the great tribulation is,
and since it is central to harpazo timing when using the “trib”
to define timing, it’s essential that everyone understand that term
the same way. I’ve put that Bible study together and called it, amazingly
the great tribulation. Please read that first, it will clear up a lot
on the problems with the post-tribulation perspective.
I want to be clear that this page isn’t a post-tribulation bash,
but rather a frank and Biblical look at the foundations of this theory.
One of the arguments that keeps coming up is the fear by those who hold
the post-tribulation view that everyone else will be unprepared to endure
the hardships of the tribulation because they aren’t preparing for
it now, but rather are expecting to be removed from any hardship. Christians
all over the world right now are dying in horrible ways
for their faith. Muslims are killing Christians all over the Middle East
and Africa today.
Voice of the Martyrs
is a good organization for hearing about these things and helping out. Just
because we in America may not be persecuted right now, doesn’t mean
we won’t go through hard times. As Christians, with Christ in us that
persecution shouldn’t phase us when we rely on Him. Regardless
of what view of the harpazo believers hold, we should always be close to
Christ and relying on Him in all things including enduring persecution.
I personally believe that the church will be taken prior to the wrath
of God, about 3 ½ years before the end of the 70th
week of Daniel. This view is called
I like that view because it centers on what the Bible is clear about, that
we are not appointed to God’s wrath, rather than relating the timing
to great tribulation. The Bible doesn’t associate harpazo timing directly
with tribulation, so there’s lots of ideas and lots of debating.
I’ve noticed also that guilt is used to try to back up the post-tribulation
perspective. Basically, those who believe in a pre-tribulation or mid-tribulation
harpazo have some desire to escape persecution and leave everyone else to
suffer while they’re relaxing in heaven.
I believe there should be no guilt felt for participating in the harpazo.
Rather, as the
bride of Christ,
I feel sorry for those who would rather stay on the earth than be married
to the Creator of the universe.
Having said this, here are the problems from the Bible that I’ve
found regarding the post-tribulation harpazo theory.
Single Coming of Christ???
The following are some differences between scriptural definitions of
Christ’s coming that are mutually exclusive. For those who believe
there is only one coming of Christ and that is at Armageddon, there is a
problem because either one has to say that the Bible is contradicting itself
or that there are two comings of the same Christ, once to gather His bride
when the sudden destruction of the
day of the
Lord comes, and another at Armageddon when He destroys the false prophet
and the man of sin ending his reign and the time of great tribulation.
But of that day
and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father
only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall
also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that
were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving
in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not
until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming
of the Son of man be.
And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire
to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. And
they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor
follow them. For as the lightning, that lighteneth
out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under
heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. But first
must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it
be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank,
they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that
Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank,
they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But
THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained
fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall
it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
The scriptures above all happen before God’s wrath begins at the
sixth seal when the people are hiding in caves for fear of the Lord
when He arises to shake terribly the earth. Isaiah 2:12-21 | Revelation
This is opposed to the time when the world is gathered to Har Megiddo
(Armageddon) for the battle of that great day of God Almighty. This doesn’t
happen until the
sixth bowl, which is after the
wrath of God
And knew not until
the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood
came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of
This shows that the escape comes before the wrath.
But THE SAME DAY that
Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and
destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of
man is revealed.
This again confirms Lot’s escape from the destination of God’s
wrath the same day as the destruction. If Armageddon, the only time you
view Christ as coming, is after the sixth bowl, how can that be what is
spoken of in Matthew 24:36-39 and Luke 17:22-30, if the seven bowls are
the “seven last plagues” of God’s wrath?
And I saw another
sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the
seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
However, Christ comes twice as evidenced by the incompatibility of the
first two scriptures posted with that of Revelation 19, 20. If two examples
of God’s wrath being poured out are used to explain and connect Christ’s
coming, which is seen by those afraid and hiding in the rocks connected
in scripture to the day of the Lord, how can we say there is only one coming
of Christ if it presents an irresolvable conflict in scripture?
Christ’s coming for His Bride:
- Lightning from east to west Luke 17:22-30 | Matthew 24:36-39
- Gathering to escape God’s Wrath Luke 21:34-36
of God on the children of disobedience Ephesians 5:1-8
of the Lord Joel 2:31
- Sudden destruction 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11
- Hiding in caves for fear of the Lord Isaiah
2:12-21 | Revelation 6:12-17
- Signs of the sixth seal soon followed by destruction of trumpets
These cannot be the same time. If they are, then how does God’s wrath
get poured out on the antichrist’s kingdom at the
fifth bowl if that kingdom ends, Revelation 19:20, at the time Christ
returns and the wrath comes?
- Christ returns to earth in glory
- Wife is following Him Revelation 19:11-14
- Every eye will see Him (some from below, some from behind)
- Army’s of the earth gathered (from
sixth bowl) “to make war against him
that sat on the horse, and against his army”
- Antichrist’s 3½-year reign ends Revelation 19:20
And how can Christ’s coming with wrath be at Armageddon if the
bowls are God’s wrath and the armies are gathered to Armageddon at
the sixth bowl?
How is it that at one statement of Christ’s coming everyone’s
afraid and in the other they’ve gathered to battle Him?
How can there be only one coming of Christ in the end and scripture remain
accurate and in agreement with itself? Either we can say scripture is in
error because there is only one coming of Christ or we can say this explains
how scripture states that there are two comings of Christ.
If there are two comings of Christ, when would the first one be before
Armageddon and why would it happen? A
from scripture answers those questions because we are not appointed to wrath
and just as Noah and Lot were saved before the destruction came, so must
we be and according to scripture that is the case. This is
the escape of the bride of Christ to the marriage of the Lamb. Because
God’s wrath is not for the children of obedience. Ephesians 5:1-8
They know God and obey His ways of love and are filled with His Holy Spirit.
They have the oil in their lamps to go out and meet the bridegroom upon
being called to meet Him. Matthew 25:1-13 This is before the sudden and
unexpected destruction that comes like a thief on the day of the Lord. That
begins the wrath from the Almighty and it comes before Armageddon and has
to. Since Christ is coming at both mutually exclusive times, He must come
- With wrath suddenly and unexpectedly on a day and hour we know not
to gather His bride before His wrath is poured out.
- In glory returning to earth with His wife from heaven to destroy
the armies gathered during His wrath at the sixth bowl to the battle
of Armageddon, the “battle of that
great day of God Almighty.”
What Christ said in the Bible
And he spake to
them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now
shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh
at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things
come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away,
till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words
shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest
at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness,
and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For
as a snare shall it come on all
them that dwell on the face of the whole
Watch ye therefore, and
pray always, that ye may be accounted
worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass,
and to stand before the Son of man.
Clearly we see here that it is possible to escape all the things that
will come to pass from the verses before Luke 21:25-28 and instead, stand
before the Son of man, this is what the harpazo is, our being taken by the
bridegroom to the marriage of the Lamb. The key thing we will escape from
is God’s wrath, or as written in scripture, the “powers of heaven
being shaken.” Isaiah 13:10-13 (Luke 21:26-27) We will then return
with Him just as explained in Revelation 19:7,8; 11-14, I’ll get in
more detail further down.
1 Thessalonians 5:9
1 Thessalonians 5:1-11
the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto
you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh
as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety;
then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with
child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness,
that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children
of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor
of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch
and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that
be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day,
be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet,
the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed
us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died
for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with
him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together,
and edify one another, even as also ye do.
1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait
for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even
Jesus, which delivered us from
the wrath to come.
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness,
let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness,
nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather
giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean
person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in
the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words:
for because of these things cometh the
wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not
ye therefore partakers with them.
If we’re not partaking with them, why would we be portioned the
wrath we are told Yeshua saved us from? What is
Maybe it’s talking about eternal wrath of some kind? Let’s examine
what the Bible says in relation to this idea of God sending His wrath on
the righteous and how that’s connected to the end times.
And the LORD
said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do; Seeing that Abraham
shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of
the earth shall be blessed in him? For I know him, that he will command
his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way
of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon
Abraham that which he hath spoken of him. And the LORD said, Because
the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very
grievous; I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether
according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will
know. And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom:
but Abraham stood yet before the LORD. And Abraham drew near,
and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
Peradventure there be fifty righteous within
the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty
righteous that are therein? That be far from thee to do after
this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous
should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge
of all the earth do right? And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty
righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for
their sakes. And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have
taken upon me to speak unto the LORD, which am but dust and ashes:
Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty
righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And
he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy
it. And he spake unto him yet again, and said,
Peradventure there shall be forty found there.
And he said, I will not do it for forty’s sake.
And he said unto him, Oh let not the LORD be angry, and I will speak:
Peradventure there shall thirty be found there.
And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.
And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the LORD:
Peradventure there shall be twenty found there.
And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty’s sake.
And he said, Oh let not the LORD be angry, and I will speak yet but
this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there.
And he said, I will not destroy it for ten’s sake.
And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham:
and Abraham returned unto his place.
I certainly hope there are more than ten righteous on the earth when
God’s wrath comes on those that dwell on the earth.
And he spake to
them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now
shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh
at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know
ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This
generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth
shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to
yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting,
and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you
unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell
on the face of the whole earth.
Watch ye therefore, and pray always,
that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all
these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of
And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of
the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were
given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and
the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it
was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they
sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out
of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them
all. Even thus shall it be in the day
when the Son of man is revealed.
We have the questions of Abraham connected to the end times when God
said that He would not send His wrath on the city if even 10 righteous were
there. God’s wrath is going to come upon the WHOLE WORLD. That is
why the harpazo comes before the
day of the
Lord, the wrath of God and shaking of the heavens. (Isaiah 13:10-13)
The righteous must be removed from the destination of God’s wrath,
the whole earth. This is why I hold the
So Christ was once
offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall
he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
While the topic being discussed there isn’t who Christ will appear
to when He returns, it does say, “and
unto them that look for him
shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”
This shows an act that must happen to see His second appearance. You must
be looking for Him to come to see Him. Let me clear up that this is not
Christ’s return where every eye will see Him. (That is when the church,
His wife, will be following on white horses) Then every eye will see Him,
some from below, some from behind. I believe this is talking about the harpazo.
We are told all through the New Testament to watch because we don’t
know when the Lord is coming. This specifically
says that His second coming, He’s only appearing to those looking
for Him. That means that Christ comes at a time when not
every eye will see Him, but only those who are looking for His coming will “He
appear to without sin unto salvation.”
The Watch List
1 Thessalonians 5:1-11
We should watch the signs and THEN we will see Him when He comes. I believe
He has laid out enough detail to know about the time we should be expecting
Him to come for our gathering to Him. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-5 That scripture
should be our key as to when to start looking for Him, after the apostasy
and the beast reveals himself through the abomination of desolation.
I think Luke 17:24-37 confirms this using two comparative scriptures
for the abomination of desolation and one for the harpazo. The abomination
of desolation happens in the day the Son of man is revealed, and the harpazo
happens in that night. More on that study
And I saw thrones,
and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw
the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for
the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his
image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their
hands; and they lived and reigned with
Christ a thousand years. But
the rest of the dead lived not again
until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
That’s a pretty specific description and coincidentally can only
represent people of ONE TIME IN HISTORY. That time is the last 3½
years, when the beast is ruling the earth and demanding worship of the world,
beheading those who don’t obey and worship. No other time in history
has the mark of the beast been implemented. The clincher for me is the logic
statement present in scripture itself to define beyond a shadow of a doubt.
“But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.”
How is that a logic statement? We have conditions stated before. The
subject being spoken of here don’t do certain things listed above.
1) I saw the souls of them that were
beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,
2) and which had not worshipped the beast,
neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads,
or in their hands;
These things define a particular time in history which has never happened
and will only happen once time future. Then it says those that don’t
do these things will live and reign with Christ 1,000 years.
What does “the rest of the dead” mean? Well, just what it
says, everyone not included in the conditions above that were resurrected
don’t live again until the 1,000 years are done. That includes those
who didn’t live during the time of the beast’s reign. That includes
all believers who died before the last 3½ years according to the
literal acceptance of scripture itself. What about all those believers from
before this time? Well, they are resurrected moments before the harpazo
that happens just after the beast comes to power at the beginning of the
42 months, just like Luke 17:24-37 and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 say.
Promises to the Philadelphia church
And to the angel
of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy,
he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and
no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; I know thy works:
behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it:
for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not
denied my name. Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan,
which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make
them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved
thee. Because thou hast kept the word of my
patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation,
which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the
earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast,
that no man take thy crown. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar
in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write
upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which
is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I
will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what
the Spirit saith unto the churches.
a putting to proof (by
experiment [of good],
experience [of evil], solicitation,
discipline or provocation); by implication adversity: - temptation,
When is this hour of putting to proof that the church will be kept from?
I believe it starts at God’s wrath on the children of disobedience.
God will send a strong delusion so that those who have no love for the truth
will believe a lie. 2 Thessalonians 2:8-14 This is like God testing those
who dwell on the earth, a time of putting to proof. They will either choose
God, or the system of the world that the beast will set up. However, at
least one church is promised to be kept from this time. Why? Because they
have already made their choice by faith in Yeshua the Christ and as you
will see later, they must be present at the marriage of the Lamb, Revelation
19:7-8 which happens before Christ returns in glory when we return with
Him. Revelation 19:11-14
And Enoch also, the
seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying,
Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands
of his saintsG40, To
execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly
among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed,
and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against
This is Christ’s return in glory and ten thousands of His saints
are coming with Him. “Saint” is defined for
sacred (physically, pure, morally blameless or religious, ceremonially,
consecrated):--(most) holy (one, thing), saint.
This means we must have been taken before His coming in glory in order
to be returning with Him.
The sequence of events as given to John in the
Revelation of Yeshua
Revelation 19, 20
And after these
things [Meta tauta] I heard a great voice of much people in heaven,
saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto
the Lord our God: For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath
judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication,
and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. And again they
said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. And the four
and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that
sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. And a voice came out of the
throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear
him, both small and great. And I heard as it were the voice of a great
multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty
thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
1) Let us be glad and rejoice, and
give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife
hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed
in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness
of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called
unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are
the true sayings of God. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And
he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of
thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the
testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
2) And I saw heaven opened, and behold
a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True,
and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a
flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written,
that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture
dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies
which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine
linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that
with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod
of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of
Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written,
KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice,
saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather
yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat
the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty
men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the
flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
4) And I saw the beast, and the kings
of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against
him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken,
and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with
which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and
them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake
of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the
sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his
mouth: and all the fowls (from #3 above) were filled with their flesh.
5) And I saw an angel come down from
heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his
hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the
Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into
the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he
should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be
fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
6) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon
them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them
that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,
and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had
received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they
lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the
dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is
the first resurrection. Acts 24:15 1 Corinthians 15:20-24
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in
the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but
they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him
a thousand years. Revelation 20:4-5]
7) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be
loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which
are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them
together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And
they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of
the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God
out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was
cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false
prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
8) And I saw a great white throne,
and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled
away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small
and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another
book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged
out of those things which were written in the books, according to their
works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and
hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged
every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into
the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found
written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
9) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth:
for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there
was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming
down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle
of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his
people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God
shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more
death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain:
for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne
said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for
these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done.
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him
that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that
overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall
be my son.
So here we see:
- Marriage of the Lamb takes place (wife arrayed in fine linen: clean
- Christ returns in glory with wife behind Him (armies on white horses “clothed
in fine linen, white and clean” Revelation 15:6 shows angels dressed
in “pure and white linen” as compared to “fine linen
clean and white”)
- Birds gathered in anticipation of Armageddon
- Armageddon (beast & false prophet thrown in lake of fire)
- Satan bound 1,000 years
- Last part of “first resurrection” (That of the just)
- satan loosed to deceive nations at end of millennium and is destroyed
and cast into lake of fire
- Great white throne judgment (“last resurrection” - that of the unjust)
implied 2 Peter 3:8-12 - Destruction of this heaven and earth for...
- New heavens and new earth
Here we have an order of events in one flowing scripture. Remember that
there were originally no chapter/verse separations. The language flows from
chapter 19 through 20 in one flowing sequence of events. This should be
the best and most sure foundation for building a layout of the sequence
of events during this time. When you do that, you see that the “first
resurrection” (6) actually happens
after Christ’s return
in glory (2) and the wife of Christ, the
church, returns with Him on white horses dressed in the same clothes they
were arrayed in at the wedding (1). The numbers
are all a jumble with a post-tribulation harpazo perspective.
The basis for the belief
There are several assumptions that one must make to hold a post-tribulation
harpazo view. I will list them below. To my knowledge, there is no definitive
scriptural link between these different things and in fact, some assumptions
are contrary to scripture.
Assumption #1: The 7th Trumpet Is The “Last
seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices
in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms
of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats,
fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks,
O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou
hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations
were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they
should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants
the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small
and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the
temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple
the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and
thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
This is the last trumpet of the 7 trumpets and the wording would indicate
that this is the point where the kingdoms of the earth belong to the Lord.
However, as we continue reading through Revelation, we see that it isn’t
actually all over yet and there are still bowl judgments to dole out.
1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last
trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised
incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
This is referring to the harpazo, in my opinion. The last trump of what?
What is our basis for determining the “last” one? We aren’t
told, but then again, since nobody knows the day or hour of Christ’s
coming for His bride, the church. We know from Revelation 13:5 when the
second coming in glory will be 1260 days after the abomination of desolation.
But we can’t know the day or hour of His return. Therefore, His return
in glory must not be the time that is referred to here, but rather a time
that nobody knows but the Father, a secret time that won’t be revealed
until it is upon us and we hear that trumpet of God sound and the voice
of the archangel shout out to us, calling us to the clouds to meet the Lord
in the air, and from then on forever be with the Lord.
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun
be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall
fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And
then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall
all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man
coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall
send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and
they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end
of heaven to the other.
This scripture is also commonly used to associate the harpazo and this
trumpet. However, they fail to take into account that the elect are being
gathered from one end of heaven to the other, which is confirmed in more
concrete language in Mark 13:27 saying, “from the uttermost part of
the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.” Clearly, the elect are
in heaven too at the point when Christ is returning in glory. In fact, that
is confirmed when we look at the description of Christ’s return in
Revelation 19 where the bride makes herself ready and then is following
Christ on white horses before the “first resurrection” ever
They also fail to take into account the Biblical definition for the time
great tribulation. It is commonly assumed that the great tribulation
lasts 3 ½ years.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and
remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are
asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,
with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the
dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain
shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord
in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort
one another with these words.
We see here that the last trump is the trump of God. But there’s
no indication that the trumpets of the 7 trumpet judgments are the trump
of God. We don’t know from scripture any specific trump of God being
used although I’m sure it was and will be. Is God the only one who
uses this trumpet, or is it just His by namesake? Since we don’t have
any indication of how many times it will be blown, how do we know when the
last trump will be? We don’t. Perhaps that’s why we don’t
know the day or hour, because we don’t know enough about the trump
of God, distinguished as different from just any trumpet. This last trump
of God is clearly the marking of the resurrection/harpazo, but I don’t
see anything that associates the last trump with the 7th trumpet. When we
view the scripture where the angels get the trumpets, we find out that they
aren’t all sharing the same trumpet, the trump of God, but they are
all given their own trumpets.
And when he had
opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space
of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God;
and to them were given seven trumpets.
Clearly, the angels are each given different trumpets.
The “last trump” is specifically the “trump of
God.” This sets it apart from any other trumpet and wouldn’t
be split up to give to seven angels and there is nothing special said of
these 7 trumpets given out. For this reason, I believe the Bible contradicts
the theory the the seventh trumpet is the “last trump” in which
the harpazo will take place.
Assumption #2: “First Resurrection”
of Revelation 20:4,5 is The Harpazo
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given
unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for
the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped
the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their
foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ
a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again
until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on
such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God
and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
First of all, who is resurrected here? We are given a detailed list of “qualifications.”
They limit those being discussed to tribulation saints. What about all the
Christians that died before this time?
- They were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of
- They had not worshipped the beast or his image
- They didn’t receive his mark on their foreheads or hands
Secondly, and most importantly, Revelation 19:14 portrays the bride Revelation
19:7,8 as following Christ at His glorious return from heaven on white horses.
Revelation 19:11-14 The fact that other scriptures describe the Lord returning
with tens of thousands of His Holy angels doesn’t change this because
the bride and the angels can both be part of His glorious return to take
the kingdoms. If we are following Christ at His glorious return, then the “first
resurrection” doesn’t happen until after Christ has returned,
defeated the beast and false prophet, destroyed the armies, and chained
Satan in the bottomless pit. A post-tribulation harpazo forces the Word
against the order of events it plainly lays out for us.
So what is the “first resurrection?” I think the term is
being misinterpreted based on the fact that this cannot be the harpazo.
We know from scripture that there are two resurrections. There is a resurrection
of the just and of the unjust. Acts 24:15 Christ is the firstfruits of the
resurrection. 1 Corinthians 15:22-24 The rest of us will be resurrected
at His coming, the harpazo. What happens after the harpazo? 1 Corinthians
15:24 This clearly places the harpazo; Christ’s coming (not return),
before His return.
And have hope toward
God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a
resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
1 Corinthians 15:22-24
as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every
man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they
that are Christ’s at his coming. Then cometh the end,
when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father;
when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice
of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ
shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught
up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and
so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with
Well here we see that this “last trump” is the “trump
of God.” We know these two are the same because what is described
is clearly the same event. The same cannot be said for the first resurrection,
where no detail is given on the event at all except who participates in
it. These verses give us that the dead in Christ rise first. We know from
1 Corinthians 15:50-58 that this isn’t just a resurrection back to
life, but a changing from mortality to immortality. Corruption to incorruption.
The Bible says the harpazo is around the time of the abomination of
as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be
also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they
married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe
entered into the ark, and the flood
came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of
Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted,
they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained
fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son
of man is revealed.
Matthew 24:15-22Mark 13:14-16
In that day, he which shall be upon the
housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take
it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
Remember Lot’s wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his
life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve
it. I tell you,
15:50-53 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
in that night, there shall be two men
in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall
be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall
be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field;
the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they
answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, wheresoever
the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
I’d like to point out a couple interesting things in this passage.
- Notice that the only other places in the Bible where the warning
to not come in from the field or down from the housetop are in Matthew
24:15-22 and Mark 13:14-16. Both are directly referring to the abomination
- Notice that the only other place in the Bible where the two people
are grinding, sleeping, etc. is Matthew 24:38-42, and is directly associated
with watching for the Lord’s coming.
So the day when the Son of man is revealed is sudden and unexpected.
It is also the time of the abomination of desolation. Then, in that night,
there are two in bed, one taken the other left, etc. The disciples ask specifically
where these people are gathered to. The answer: “Wheresoever the body
is, there will the eagles be gathered together.”
the body (as a sound
whole), used in a very wide application, literally or
figuratively: - bodily, body, slave.
Is this the “body” of Christ that is gathered where the eagles
are? First mention of eagles relating to Moses when God said: “Ye
have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles’
wings, and brought you unto myself.” Exodus 19:3-5 That’s what
the harpazo is all about, gathering us unto Himself. We will be gathered
to God around the time of the abomination of desolation according to scripture.
That is 3.5 years before the second coming in glory of Christ. The sixth
seal starts just after the abomination of desolation, therefore, we will
be taken just before the wrath of God starts. (for more information on timeframe,
Where else are
eagles mentioned in scripture?
- (6 times) Swiftness -
Deuteronomy 28:49 | 2 Samuel 1:23 | Job
9:26 | Jeremiah 4:13 | Lamentations 4:19 | Habakkuk 1:8
- (4 times) Prey -
Job 9:26 | Job 39:29 | Proverbs 30:17
| Matthew 24:28
- (4 times) Flying/lying toward heaven
- Proverbs 23:5 | Jeremiah 48:40 | Jeremiah
49:22 | Revelation 4:7
- (4 times) Likeness of -
Ezekiel 1:10 | Ezekiel 10:14 | Daniel 7:4 | Micah 1:16
- (3 times) Bearing upon eagles wings
- Exodus 19:4 | Deuteronomy 32:9-14 |
Isaiah 40:31 | Revelation 12:14
- (3 times) Nest in high strong place
- Job 39:27-28 | Jeremiah 49:16 | Obadiah
- (1 time) Renewed youth -
- (1 time) Wonderful things -
- (1 time) Prophetic -
- (1 time) Sound -
Eagles are used to symbolize different things than just eating dead flesh.
I’d say by mention, that eagles represent swiftness more than anything
1 Corinthians 15:51,52
I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the
trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and
we shall be changed.
There have been some who say that the ones being taken are those being
punished like the story of Noah, how the flood came and “took took
them all away.” What about the story of Lot? It was Lot and his family
that were taken away prior to God’s wrath raining down on the cities
of Sodom and Gomorrah. Once again, a look at the original Greek clears this
up right away. Over and over, the term “shall be taken” is used,
which means in the original Greek...
shall be taken (G3880)
From G3844 and G2983; to receive
near, that is, associate with oneself (in
any familiar or intimate act or relation); by analogy to assume
an office; figuratively to learn: - receive, take (unto, with).
It’s interesting that this matches precisely with the first mention
of eagles in scripture and the wording being so similar to being taken,
or snatched up.
Does being raised / taken up at the last day mean the harpazo is at
the end of the 70th week?
Jesus Himself said it....witnessed to it 4 times in one chapter alone.
And this is the
pleasure of him who sent me, that I am not to let out of my hands
anything which he has given me, but I am to give it new life on
the last day.
This, I say, is my Father’s pleasure, that everyone who
sees the Son and has faith in him may have eternal life: and I will
take him up on the last day.
No man is able to come to me if the Father
who sent me does not give him the desire to come: and I will take
him up from the dead on the last day.
He who takes my
flesh for food and my blood for drink has eternal life: and I will
take him up from the dead at the last day.
He made it very clear that it takes place on the last day.....that
the dead in Him...are raised up the last day....and if those who are
alive and remain ...DON’T precede them......then they aren’t
caught up and changed till....the last day. No one is....till the last
day. Even Martha knew this....
Martha said to
him, I am certain that he will come to life again when all come
back from the dead at the last day.
But there is more......
He who puts me
on one side and does not take my words to heart, is not without
a judge: the word which I have said.... will be his judge..... on
the last day.
Remember....by 2 or 3 witnesses....the truth shall be established.
The teaching of
baptisms, and of the putting on of hands, and of the future life
of the dead, and of the judging on the last day.
1 Peter 1:5
Who, by the power
of God are kept, through faith, for that salvation, which will be
seen at the last day.
So Jesus John Peter Paul and Martha....are witnesses to the fact
that these things do not take place till the last day.
Are you going to argue with them Joe? Cause that’s what your
Your not arguing with me....this is not my opinion of what’s
going to happen when......I didn’t say these things....I’m
only repeating them....repeating what was repeatedly said....long ago.
All of these people spoke as they were lead of the Holy Spirit....Jesus
Himself spoke only what our Father told Him to say....all of them are
in agreement and witness to the fact that none are raised/caught up...till
the last day.
Thus the heavens
and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh
day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh
day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh
day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his
work which God created and made.
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day
is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work,
thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant,
nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six
days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is,
and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day,
and hallowed it.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of
an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a
shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
2 Peter 3:1-10
This second epistle,
beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds
by way of remembrance: That ye may be mindful of the words which were
spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the
apostles of the Lord and Saviour: Knowing this first, that there shall
come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying,
Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep,
all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the
heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in
the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water,
perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same
word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment
and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this
one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a
thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise,
as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing
that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But
the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which
the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall
melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein
shall be burned up.
So here we see in the original creation, the introduction of the Sabbath
day. Then in the 10 Commandments, we are told to keep this Sabbath day holy.
Then in the New Testament, we see that these are shadows of things to come.
We are now at almost 6,000 years of earth history according to the details
by lineage in the Bible. Christ will rule the earth for 1,000 years with
a rod of iron and it will be a perfect rule. Can you see the Sabbath millennium
there? With that understanding, we can see how being raised “at the
last day” is a reference to the beginning of the day of the Lord.
The day of the Lord marks the beginning of the 1,000 year period of time.
The day of
the Lord comes like a thief in the night with sudden destruction.
Matthew 24:29 places that immediately after the tribulation of Matthew
24:15-28, and therefore in the middle of the 70th
week of Daniel.
See this study as to why.
So to be raised “at the last day” would speak to being raised
when the day of the Lord comes. The day of the Lord is God’s wrath
to which we’re not appointed. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 Therefore, I
would expect that the just would be raised before that wrath comes since
they are resurrected before we’re all caught up together to meet the
Lord in the air.
Difference Between the harpazo at Christ’s Coming and Christ’s
Return in Glory
at Christ’s Coming
Return in Glory
||Jesus coming for
His bride up to heaven.
Luke 21:36 | John 14:1-3 |
1:10; 4:14-17; 5:9
||Jesus coming with
His wife down from heaven.
Zechariah 14:5 | Colossians 3:4 |
Revelation 19:7-8; 11-14; 21:9-10
||Caught up with Him in the
air to the clouds.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
||Jesus’ feet touch the
earth and He brings war, then peace.
| Revelation 19:11-21
|Appears only to those watching
|Every eye will see Him.
Revelation 1:7 | Zechariah 12:10 | Matthew 24:30 |
| John 19:37
||Some Christians taken first,
unbelievers and believers without oil are left behind a shut door.
Matthew 25:1-13 | 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 |
||Wicked are taken first,
the righteous (Tribulation saints) are left to populate the millennium
||Purpose: To bring the bride to Himself.
2 Corinthians 11:2 | Revelation 19:6-9 | John 14:1-3
||Purpose: To execute judgment on the
earth and set up His kingdom on the earth.
Zechariah 14:3-4 |
Jude 1:14-15 | Revelation 19:11-21
||Christians are changed, and get immortal
bodies as the angels and do not marry.
Matthew 22:30 | 1 Corinthians
15:52 | 1 John 3:2
||People populate the earth during
the millennium and some people still die.