Post-Tribulation Harpazo

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According to the Bible’s definition of “great tribulation,” a post-tribulation harpazo occurs anytime after the beast’s persecution stops. This time of the antichrist’s reign starts at the abomination of desolation and continues for 3 ½ years. Daniel 7:25 | Revelation 13:5 It ends when Christ throws the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire after He returns in glory with His bride. Revelation 19:20 There are many misconceptions about what the great tribulation is, and since it is central to harpazo timing when using the “trib” to define timing, it’s essential that everyone understand that term the same way. I’ve put that Bible study together and called it, amazingly enough, the great tribulation. Please read that first, it will clear up a lot on the problems with the post-tribulation perspective.

I want to be clear that this page isn’t a post-tribulation bash, but rather a frank and Biblical look at the foundations of this theory. One of the arguments that keeps coming up is the fear by those who hold the post-tribulation view that everyone else will be unprepared to endure the hardships of the tribulation because they aren’t preparing for it now, but rather are expecting to be removed from any hardship. Christians all over the world right now are dying in horrible ways for their faith. Muslims are killing Christians all over the Middle East and Africa today. Voice of the Martyrs is a good organization for hearing about these things and helping out. Just because we in America may not be persecuted right now, doesn’t mean we won’t go through hard times. As Christians, with Christ in us that persecution shouldn’t phase us when we rely on Him. Regardless of what view of the harpazo believers hold, we should always be close to Christ and relying on Him in all things including enduring persecution.

I personally believe that the church will be taken prior to the wrath of God, about 3 ½ years before the end of the 70th week of Daniel. This view is called pre-wrath. I like that view because it centers on what the Bible is clear about, that we are not appointed to God’s wrath, rather than relating the timing to great tribulation. The Bible doesn’t associate harpazo timing directly with tribulation, so there’s lots of ideas and lots of debating.

I’ve noticed also that guilt is used to try to back up the post-tribulation perspective. Basically, those who believe in a pre-tribulation or mid-tribulation harpazo have some desire to escape persecution and leave everyone else to suffer while they’re relaxing in heaven. I believe there should be no guilt felt for participating in the harpazo. Rather, as the bride of Christ, I feel sorry for those who would rather stay on the earth than be married to the Creator of the universe.

Having said this, here are the problems from the Bible that I’ve found regarding the post-tribulation harpazo theory.


Single Coming of Christ???

The following are some differences between scriptural definitions of Christ’s coming that are mutually exclusive. For those who believe there is only one coming of Christ and that is at Armageddon, there is a problem because either one has to say that the Bible is contradicting itself or that there are two comings of the same Christ, once to gather His bride when the sudden destruction of the day of the Lord comes, and another at Armageddon when He destroys the false prophet and the man of sin ending his reign and the time of great tribulation.

Matthew 24:36-39
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Luke 17:22-30
And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The scriptures above all happen before God’s wrath begins at the sixth seal when the people are hiding in caves for fear of the Lord when He arises to shake terribly the earth. Isaiah 2:12-21 | Revelation 6:12-17

This is opposed to the time when the world is gathered to Har Megiddo (Armageddon) for the battle of that great day of God Almighty. This doesn’t happen until the sixth bowl, which is after the wrath of God starts.

Matthew 24:39
And knew not until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

This shows that the escape comes before the wrath.

Luke 17:30
But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

This again confirms Lot’s escape from the destination of God’s wrath the same day as the destruction. If Armageddon, the only time you view Christ as coming, is after the sixth bowl, how can that be what is spoken of in Matthew 24:36-39 and Luke 17:22-30, if the seven bowls are the “seven last plagues” of God’s wrath?

Revelation 15:1
And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

However, Christ comes twice as evidenced by the incompatibility of the first two scriptures posted with that of Revelation 19, 20. If two examples of God’s wrath being poured out are used to explain and connect Christ’s coming, which is seen by those afraid and hiding in the rocks connected in scripture to the day of the Lord, how can we say there is only one coming of Christ if it presents an irresolvable conflict in scripture?

Christ’s coming for His Bride:

  • Lightning from east to west Luke 17:22-30 | Matthew 24:36-39
  • Gathering to escape God’s Wrath Luke 21:34-36
  • Wrath of God on the children of disobedience Ephesians 5:1-8
  • Day of the Lord Joel 2:31
  • Sudden destruction 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11
  • Hiding in caves for fear of the Lord Isaiah 2:12-21 | Revelation 6:12-17
  • Signs of the sixth seal soon followed by destruction of trumpets and bowls/vials.

Armageddon:

  • Christ returns to earth in glory
  • Wife is following Him Revelation 19:11-14
  • Every eye will see Him (some from below, some from behind)
  • Army’s of the earth gathered (from sixth bowl) “to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army
  • Antichrist’s 3½-year reign ends Revelation 19:20
These cannot be the same time. If they are, then how does God’s wrath get poured out on the antichrist’s kingdom at the fifth bowl if that kingdom ends, Revelation 19:20, at the time Christ returns and the wrath comes?

And how can Christ’s coming with wrath be at Armageddon if the bowls are God’s wrath and the armies are gathered to Armageddon at the sixth bowl?

How is it that at one statement of Christ’s coming everyone’s afraid and in the other they’ve gathered to battle Him?

How can there be only one coming of Christ in the end and scripture remain accurate and in agreement with itself? Either we can say scripture is in error because there is only one coming of Christ or we can say this explains how scripture states that there are two comings of Christ.

If there are two comings of Christ, when would the first one be before Armageddon and why would it happen? A pre-wrath perspective from scripture answers those questions because we are not appointed to wrath and just as Noah and Lot were saved before the destruction came, so must we be and according to scripture that is the case. This is the escape of the bride of Christ to the marriage of the Lamb. Because God’s wrath is not for the children of obedience. Ephesians 5:1-8 They know God and obey His ways of love and are filled with His Holy Spirit. They have the oil in their lamps to go out and meet the bridegroom upon being called to meet Him. Matthew 25:1-13 This is before the sudden and unexpected destruction that comes like a thief on the day of the Lord. That begins the wrath from the Almighty and it comes before Armageddon and has to. Since Christ is coming at both mutually exclusive times, He must come twice.

  1. With wrath suddenly and unexpectedly on a day and hour we know not to gather His bride before His wrath is poured out.
  2. In glory returning to earth with His wife from heaven to destroy the armies gathered during His wrath at the sixth bowl to the battle of Armageddon, the “battle of that great day of God Almighty.

What Christ said in the Bible

Luke 21:29-36
And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation (the one that sees all these things come to pass) shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Clearly we see here that it is possible to escape all the things that will come to pass from the verses before Luke 21:25-28 and instead, stand before the Son of man, this is what the harpazo is, our being taken by the bridegroom to the marriage of the Lamb. The key thing we will escape from is God’s wrath, or as written in scripture, the “powers of heaven being shaken.” Isaiah 13:10-13 (Luke 21:26-27) We will then return with Him just as explained in Revelation 19:7,8; 11-14, I’ll get in more detail further down.


1 Thessalonians 5:9

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11
But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Ephesians 5:3-7
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

If we’re not partaking with them, why would we be portioned the wrath we are told Yeshua saved us from? What is God’s wrath? Maybe it’s talking about eternal wrath of some kind? Let’s examine what the Bible says in relation to this idea of God sending His wrath on the righteous and how that’s connected to the end times.

Genesis 18:17-33
And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do; Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him? For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him. And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know. And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD. And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked? Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes. And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the LORD, which am but dust and ashes: Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it. And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty’s sake. And he said unto him, Oh let not the LORD be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there. And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the LORD: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty’s sake. And he said, Oh let not the LORD be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten’s sake. And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.

I certainly hope there are more than ten righteous on the earth when God’s wrath comes on those that dwell on the earth.

Luke 21:29-36
And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Luke 17:26-30
And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

We have the questions of Abraham connected to the end times when God said that He would not send His wrath on the city if even 10 righteous were there. God’s wrath is going to come upon the WHOLE WORLD. That is why the harpazo comes before the day of the Lord, the wrath of God and shaking of the heavens. (Isaiah 13:10-13) The righteous must be removed from the destination of God’s wrath, the whole earth. This is why I hold the pre-wrath harpazo view.


Hebrews 9:28

Hebrews 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

While the topic being discussed there isn’t who Christ will appear to when He returns, it does say, “and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.” This shows an act that must happen to see His second appearance. You must be looking for Him to come to see Him. Let me clear up that this is not Christ’s return where every eye will see Him. (That is when the church, His wife, will be following on white horses) Then every eye will see Him, some from below, some from behind. I believe this is talking about the harpazo. We are told all through the New Testament to watch because we don’t know when the Lord is coming. This specifically says that His second coming, He’s only appearing to those looking for Him. That means that Christ comes at a time when not every eye will see Him, but only those who are looking for His coming will “He appear to without sin unto salvation.

The Watch List
Matthew 24:42
Matthew 25:13
Mark 13:33-34
Luke 12:37-39
Luke 21:36
1 Thessalonians 5:1-11
Revelation 3:1-6
Revelation 16:15

We should watch the signs and THEN we will see Him when He comes. I believe He has laid out enough detail to know about the time we should be expecting Him to come for our gathering to Him. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-5 That scripture should be our key as to when to start looking for Him, after the apostasy and the beast reveals himself through the abomination of desolation.

I think Luke 17:24-37 confirms this using two comparative scriptures for the abomination of desolation and one for the harpazo. The abomination of desolation happens in the day the Son of man is revealed, and the harpazo happens in that night. More on that study here.


Revelation 20:4,5

Revelation 20:4,5
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

That’s a pretty specific description and coincidentally can only represent people of ONE TIME IN HISTORY. That time is the last 3½ years, when the beast is ruling the earth and demanding worship of the world, beheading those who don’t obey and worship. No other time in history has the mark of the beast been implemented. The clincher for me is the logic statement present in scripture itself to define beyond a shadow of a doubt.

“But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.”

How is that a logic statement? We have conditions stated before. The subject being spoken of here don’t do certain things listed above.

1) I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,
2) and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;

These things define a particular time in history which has never happened and will only happen once time future. Then it says those that don’t do these things will live and reign with Christ 1,000 years.

What does “the rest of the dead” mean? Well, just what it says, everyone not included in the conditions above that were resurrected don’t live again until the 1,000 years are done. That includes those who didn’t live during the time of the beast’s reign. That includes all believers who died before the last 3½ years according to the literal acceptance of scripture itself. What about all those believers from before this time? Well, they are resurrected moments before the harpazo that happens just after the beast comes to power at the beginning of the 42 months, just like Luke 17:24-37 and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 say.


Promises to the Philadelphia church

Revelation 3:7-13
And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.  
temptation (G3986)
peirasmos (pi-ras-mos’)
From G3985; a putting to proof (by experiment [of good], experience [of evil], solicitation, discipline or provocation); by implication adversity: - temptation, X try.

When is this hour of putting to proof that the church will be kept from? I believe it starts at God’s wrath on the children of disobedience. God will send a strong delusion so that those who have no love for the truth will believe a lie. 2 Thessalonians 2:8-14 This is like God testing those who dwell on the earth, a time of putting to proof. They will either choose God, or the system of the world that the beast will set up. However, at least one church is promised to be kept from this time. Why? Because they have already made their choice by faith in Yeshua the Christ and as you will see later, they must be present at the marriage of the Lamb, Revelation 19:7-8 which happens before Christ returns in glory when we return with Him. Revelation 19:11-14


Jude 1:14,15

Jude 1:14-15
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saintsG40, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

This is Christ’s return in glory and ten thousands of His saints are coming with Him. “Saint” is defined for us as:

sacred (physically, pure, morally blameless or religious, ceremonially, consecrated):--(most) holy (one, thing), saint.

This means we must have been taken before His coming in glory in order to be returning with Him.


The sequence of events as given to John in the Revelation of Yeshua

Revelation 19, 20
And after these things [Meta tauta] I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

1) Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

2) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

3) And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

4) And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls (from #3 above) were filled with their flesh.

5) And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

6) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. [That of the just ~ Acts 24:15 This is not the first ever resurrection as clearly laid out in 1 Corinthians 15:20-24] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. [Notice here that those who take part in the first resurrection are blessed and holy. This would include Christ, the firstfruits of the resurrection, those at His coming (harpazo) and those at Revelation 20:4-5]

7)
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

8) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

9) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

So here we see:

  1. Marriage of the Lamb takes place (wife arrayed in fine linen: clean and white)
  2. Christ returns in glory with wife behind Him (armies on white horses “clothed in fine linen, white and clean” Revelation 15:6 shows angels dressed in “pure and white linen” as compared to “fine linen clean and white”)
  3.  Birds gathered in anticipation of Armageddon
  4. Armageddon (beast & false prophet thrown in lake of fire)
  5. Satan bound 1,000 years
  6. Last part of “first resurrection” (That of the just) Implied millennium
  7. satan loosed to deceive nations at end of millennium and is destroyed and cast into lake of fire
  8. Great white throne judgment (“last resurrection” - that of the unjust) implied 2 Peter 3:8-12 - Destruction of this heaven and earth for...
  9. New heavens and new earth

Here we have an order of events in one flowing scripture. Remember that there were originally no chapter/verse separations. The language flows from chapter 19 through 20 in one flowing sequence of events. This should be the best and most sure foundation for building a layout of the sequence of events during this time. When you do that, you see that the “first resurrection” (6) actually happens after Christ’s return in glory (2) and the wife of Christ, the church, returns with Him on white horses dressed in the same clothes they were arrayed in at the wedding (1). The numbers are all a jumble with a post-tribulation harpazo perspective.


The basis for the belief

There are several assumptions that one must make to hold a post-tribulation harpazo view. I will list them below. To my knowledge, there is no definitive scriptural link between these different things and in fact, some assumptions are contrary to scripture.

Assumption #1: The 7th Trumpet Is The “Last Trump”

Revelation 11:15-19
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

This is the last trumpet of the 7 trumpets and the wording would indicate that this is the point where the kingdoms of the earth belong to the Lord. However, as we continue reading through Revelation, we see that it isn’t actually all over yet and there are still bowl judgments to dole out.

1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

This is referring to the harpazo, in my opinion. The last trump of what? What is our basis for determining the “last” one? We aren’t told, but then again, since nobody knows the day or hour of Christ’s coming for His bride, the church. We know from Revelation 13:5 when the second coming in glory will be 1260 days after the abomination of desolation. But we can’t know the day or hour of His return. Therefore, His return in glory must not be the time that is referred to here, but rather a time that nobody knows but the Father, a secret time that won’t be revealed until it is upon us and we hear that trumpet of God sound and the voice of the archangel shout out to us, calling us to the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and from then on forever be with the Lord.

Matthew 24:29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This scripture is also commonly used to associate the harpazo and this trumpet. However, they fail to take into account that the elect are being gathered from one end of heaven to the other, which is confirmed in more concrete language in Mark 13:27 saying, “from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.” Clearly, the elect are in heaven too at the point when Christ is returning in glory. In fact, that is confirmed when we look at the description of Christ’s return in Revelation 19 where the bride makes herself ready and then is following Christ on white horses before the “first resurrection” ever takes place.

They also fail to take into account the Biblical definition for the time of the great tribulation. It is commonly assumed that the great tribulation lasts 3 ½ years.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

We see here that the last trump is the trump of God. But there’s no indication that the trumpets of the 7 trumpet judgments are the trump of God. We don’t know from scripture any specific trump of God being used although I’m sure it was and will be. Is God the only one who uses this trumpet, or is it just His by namesake? Since we don’t have any indication of how many times it will be blown, how do we know when the last trump will be? We don’t. Perhaps that’s why we don’t know the day or hour, because we don’t know enough about the trump of God, distinguished as different from just any trumpet. This last trump of God is clearly the marking of the resurrection/harpazo, but I don’t see anything that associates the last trump with the 7th trumpet. When we view the scripture where the angels get the trumpets, we find out that they aren’t all sharing the same trumpet, the trump of God, but they are all given their own trumpets.

Revelation 8:1,2
And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

Clearly, the angels are each given different trumpets. The “last trump” is specifically the “trump of God.” This sets it apart from any other trumpet and wouldn’t be split up to give to seven angels and there is nothing special said of these 7 trumpets given out. For this reason, I believe the Bible contradicts the theory the the seventh trumpet is the “last trump” in which the harpazo will take place.

Assumption #2: “First Resurrection” of Revelation 20:4,5 is The Harpazo

Revelation 20:4-6
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

First of all, who is resurrected here? We are given a detailed list of “qualifications.” They limit those being discussed to tribulation saints. What about all the Christians that died before this time?

  1. They were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of God  
  2. They had not worshipped the beast or his image  
  3. They didn’t receive his mark on their foreheads or hands  

Secondly, and most importantly, Revelation 19:14 portrays the bride Revelation 19:7,8 as following Christ at His glorious return from heaven on white horses. Revelation 19:11-14 The fact that other scriptures describe the Lord returning with tens of thousands of His Holy angels doesn’t change this because the bride and the angels can both be part of His glorious return to take the kingdoms. If we are following Christ at His glorious return, then the “first resurrection” doesn’t happen until after Christ has returned, defeated the beast and false prophet, destroyed the armies, and chained Satan in the bottomless pit. A post-tribulation harpazo forces the Word against the order of events it plainly lays out for us.

So what is the “first resurrection?” I think the term is being misinterpreted based on the fact that this cannot be the harpazo. We know from scripture that there are two resurrections. There is a resurrection of the just and of the unjust. Acts 24:15 Christ is the firstfruits of the resurrection. 1 Corinthians 15:22-24 The rest of us will be resurrected at His coming, the harpazo. What happens after the harpazo? 1 Corinthians 15:24 This clearly places the harpazo; Christ’s coming (not return), before His return.  

Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

1 Corinthians 15:22-24
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Well here we see that this “last trump” is the “trump of God.” We know these two are the same because what is described is clearly the same event. The same cannot be said for the first resurrection, where no detail is given on the event at all except who participates in it. These verses give us that the dead in Christ rise first. We know from 1 Corinthians 15:50-58 that this isn’t just a resurrection back to life, but a changing from mortality to immortality. Corruption to incorruption.


The Bible says the harpazo is around the time of the abomination of desolation

Luke 17:26-37
And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

{Unexpected Time}-->
They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe [Noah] entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

{Abomination of desolation (
Matthew 24:15-22 | Mark 13:14-16)}--> In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot’s wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I tell you,

{harpazo (
1 Corinthians 15:50-53 | 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 | Matthew 24:40-42)}--> in that night, there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

I’d like to point out a couple interesting things in this passage. 

  1. Notice that the only other places in the Bible where the warning to not come in from the field or down from the housetop are in Matthew 24:15-22 and Mark 13:14-16. Both are directly referring to the abomination of desolation.
  2. Notice that the only other place in the Bible where the two people are grinding, sleeping, etc. is Matthew 24:38-42, and is directly associated with watching for the Lord’s coming.

So the day when the Son of man is revealed is sudden and unexpected. It is also the time of the abomination of desolation. Then, in that night, there are two in bed, one taken the other left, etc. The disciples ask specifically where these people are gathered to. The answer: “Wheresoever the body is, there will the eagles be gathered together.”

body (G4983)
σῶμα
sōma (so’-mah)
From G4982; the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively: - bodily, body, slave.

Is this the “body” of Christ that is gathered where the eagles are? First mention of eagles relating to Moses when God said: “Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles’ wings, and brought you unto myself.” Exodus 19:3-5 That’s what the harpazo is all about, gathering us unto Himself. We will be gathered to God around the time of the abomination of desolation according to scripture. That is 3.5 years before the second coming in glory of Christ. The sixth seal starts just after the abomination of desolation, therefore, we will be taken just before the wrath of God starts. (for more information on timeframe, read the great tribulation definition)

Where else are eagles mentioned in scripture?

  • (6 times) Swiftness - Deuteronomy 28:49 | 2 Samuel 1:23 | Job 9:26 | Jeremiah 4:13 | Lamentations 4:19 | Habakkuk 1:8
  • (4 times) Prey - Job 9:26 | Job 39:29 | Proverbs 30:17 | Matthew 24:28
  • (4 times) Flying/lying toward heaven - Proverbs 23:5 | Jeremiah 48:40 | Jeremiah 49:22 | Revelation 4:7
  • (4 times) Likeness of - Ezekiel 1:10 | Ezekiel 10:14 | Daniel 7:4 | Micah 1:16
  • (3 times) Bearing upon eagles wings - Exodus 19:4 | Deuteronomy 32:9-14 | Isaiah 40:31 | Revelation 12:14
  • (3 times) Nest in high strong place - Job 39:27-28 | Jeremiah 49:16 | Obadiah 1:4
  • (1 time) Renewed youth - Psalms 103:5
  • (1 time) Wonderful things - Proverbs 30:18-19
  • (1 time) Prophetic - Ezekiel 17:3
  • (1 time) Sound - Hosea 8:1

Eagles are used to symbolize different things than just eating dead flesh. I’d say by mention, that eagles represent swiftness more than anything else.

1 Corinthians 15:51,52
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

There have been some who say that the ones being taken are those being punished like the story of Noah, how the flood came and “took took them all away.” What about the story of Lot? It was Lot and his family that were taken away prior to God’s wrath raining down on the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. Once again, a look at the original Greek clears this up right away. Over and over, the term “shall be taken” is used, which means in the original Greek...

shall be taken (G3880)
paralambanō (par-al-am-ban’-o)
From G3844 and G2983; to receive near, that is, associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation); by analogy to assume an office; figuratively to learn: - receive, take (unto, with).

It’s interesting that this matches precisely with the first mention of eagles in scripture and the wording being so similar to being taken, or snatched up.


Does being raised / taken up at the last day mean the harpazo is at the end of the 70th week?

Recent post:

Jesus Himself said it....witnessed to it 4 times in one chapter alone.

John 6:39
And this is the pleasure of him who sent me, that I am not to let out of my hands anything which he has given me, but I am to give it new life on the last day.

John 6:40
This, I say, is my Father’s pleasure, that everyone who sees the Son and has faith in him may have eternal life: and I will take him up on the last day.

John 6:44
No man is able to come to me if the Father who sent me does not give him the desire to come: and I will take him up from the dead on the last day.

John 6:54
He who takes my flesh for food and my blood for drink has eternal life: and I will take him up from the dead at the last day.

He made it very clear that it takes place on the last day.....that the dead in Him...are raised up the last day....and if those who are alive and remain ...DON’T precede them......then they aren’t caught up and changed till....the last day. No one is....till the last day. Even Martha knew this....

John 11:24
Martha said to him, I am certain that he will come to life again when all come back from the dead at the last day.

But there is more......

John 12:48
He who puts me on one side and does not take my words to heart, is not without a judge: the word which I have said.... will be his judge..... on the last day.

Remember....by 2 or 3 witnesses....the truth shall be established.

Hebrews 6:2
The teaching of baptisms, and of the putting on of hands, and of the future life of the dead, and of the judging on the last day.

1 Peter 1:5
Who, by the power of God are kept, through faith, for that salvation, which will be seen at the last day.

So Jesus John Peter Paul and Martha....are witnesses to the fact that these things do not take place till the last day.

Are you going to argue with them Joe? Cause that’s what your doing.

Your not arguing with me....this is not my opinion of what’s going to happen when......I didn’t say these things....I’m only repeating them....repeating what was repeatedly said....long ago.

All of these people spoke as they were lead of the Holy Spirit....Jesus Himself spoke only what our Father told Him to say....all of them are in agreement and witness to the fact that none are raised/caught up...till the last day.

My response:

Genesis 2:1-3
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Exodus 20:8-11
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Colossians 2:16,17
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

2 Peter 3:1-10
This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

So here we see in the original creation, the introduction of the Sabbath day. Then in the 10 Commandments, we are told to keep this Sabbath day holy. Then in the New Testament, we see that these are shadows of things to come.

We are now at almost 6,000 years of earth history according to the details by lineage in the Bible. Christ will rule the earth for 1,000 years with a rod of iron and it will be a perfect rule. Can you see the Sabbath millennium there? With that understanding, we can see how being raised “at the last day” is a reference to the beginning of the day of the Lord. The day of the Lord marks the beginning of the 1,000 year period of time. The day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night with sudden destruction.

Matthew 24:29 places that immediately after the tribulation of Matthew 24:15-28, and therefore in the middle of the 70th week of Daniel. See this study as to why.

So to be raised “at the last day” would speak to being raised when the day of the Lord comes. The day of the Lord is God’s wrath to which we’re not appointed. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 Therefore, I would expect that the just would be raised before that wrath comes since they are resurrected before we’re all caught up together to meet the Lord in the air.


Difference Between the harpazo at Christ’s Coming and Christ’s Return in Glory

Harpazo at Christ’s Coming Christ’s Return in Glory
1 Jesus coming for His bride up to heaven.
Luke 21:36 | John 14:1-3 |
1 Thessalonians 1:10; 4:14-17; 5:9
1 Jesus coming with His wife down from heaven.
Zechariah 14:5 | Colossians 3:4 |
Revelation 19:7-8; 11-14; 21:9-10
2 Caught up with Him in the air to the clouds.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
2 Jesus’ feet touch the earth and He brings war, then peace.
Zechariah 14:4 | Revelation 19:11-21
Appears only to those watching for Him.
Hebrews 9:28
Every eye will see Him.
Revelation 1:7 | Zechariah 12:10 | Matthew 24:30 |
Luke 3:6 | John 19:37
3 Some Christians taken first, unbelievers and believers without oil are left behind a shut door.
Matthew 25:1-13 | 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 |
Matthew 7:13-23
3 Wicked are taken first, the righteous (Tribulation saints) are left to populate the millennium
Matthew 13:28-30
4 Purpose: To bring the bride to Himself.
2 Corinthians 11:2 | Revelation 19:6-9 | John 14:1-3
4 Purpose: To execute judgment on the earth and set up His kingdom on the earth.
Zechariah 14:3-4 | Jude 1:14-15 | Revelation 19:11-21
5 Christians are changed, and get immortal bodies as the angels and do not marry.
Matthew 22:30 | 1 Corinthians 15:52 | 1 John 3:2
5 People populate the earth during the millennium and some people still die.
Isaiah 65